1029points · 17h ago

Owed a billion dollars in Nvidia stock

colo.to·by Eric_Gullichsen·17h ago

Discussion 430 comments

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klausa·11h ago
I feel like I'm going crazy reading the comments, and I guess, big props to the author for writing this in a way that pulls it off.

The issue here is, IMHO, not "Nvidia owes me stock in an ironclad way and gets away with it because of statue of limitations", but "I accepted an offer from Nvidia but the paperwork between the offer and the options grant differed in a way that both benefits me, and nobody noticed or cared about until now".

The original offer was for 25k shares, vesting over 4 years.

The options paperwork says 25k shares, vesting over 4 _quarters_.

Now, I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not a securities lawyer, but that seems like it could be reasonably chalked down to a clerical error on the options paperwork? "You made a mistake and now I can get a billion dollars more than we agreed to originally" doesn't feel like a great lawsuit!

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weinzierl·8h ago
I think the issue is even simpler. When NVIDIA ended his advisory relationship in 1996, he had 90 days to exercise his vested options. That deadline passed nearly 30 years ago, regardless of whether vesting took one year or four.

He exercised the 15,625 options NVIDIA told him had vested. His claim now is that all 25,000 had actually vested, but NVIDIA’s letter gave him the wrong number. The letter was informing him of NVIDIA’s calculation; it did not change the option agreement. So the question is whether being given that incorrect information in 1996 gives him a claim today, despite both the exercise deadline and the statute of limitations having passed.

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klausa·8h ago
This presupposes the information/calculation was incorrect.

I disagree with this being a foregone conclusion

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PowerElectronix·7h ago
Usually, when an ITM option expires, the clearinghouse exercises it. I guess you have to jump through some hoops to claim them if they are offered to you through the company, but the stock is owed.

NVDA has also just announced they are buying back stock for 150b, so they could throw some the author's way, hehe.

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Anon1096·7h ago
No that only applies for options in public stock, Nvidia was private in 1996.
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sheepscreek·7h ago
I might stand corrected but I believe there’s a nuance even for public companies. Being awarded options directly (from the company) and not exercising would mean the company does nothing - that is, it keeps the equity. There is no options house or exchange involved hence no external settlement process.
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sheepscreek·7h ago
I think ESOPs (employee equity ownership plan) options work differently. There is no options house in the picture because you’re dealing with the company directly, with no exchange in between.

If the author didn’t exercise his options, then the company would have redistributed the earmarked equity back into the common pool. This is a board-authorized % of equity put aside for stock awards.

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piker·9h ago
Yes. I noted this below. A lot of times you see a decimal point in the wrong place and the courts don't just say "oh well, I guess it's a billion then!"

The rulings are fact-specific, but clearly both parties here had a mutual understanding that the paper was only meant to reflect.

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pinchydev·7h ago
Not a decimal point, but the courts have shown deference to a comma (or lack there of in the case below) and has resulted in companies paying millions…

https://lawfold.com/oxford-comma-lawsuit/

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piker·6h ago
Yes, it’s going to be a super fact-specific ruling in each case because what you’re trying to determine generally is what was actually agreed. (There are exceptions to this where what was written will have heavier or lighter weight.) Here though it seems like everyone at the time agreed one thing and wrote another. I’d be shocked if somehow this got the author rich even without time barring.
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IAmBroom·6h ago
Completely irrelevant to this case. That's about grammar and punctuation; this is about an accounting error expressed in English.
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59percentmore·7h ago
I think you could forgive people for thinking so, in a society where people get sent to prison for decades on the subjective read of technicalities (and subsequently released early when advocacy bashes the government's head against its own injustice for long enough; of course, at that point, the judge is retired or dead and the prosecutor has had a long, successful career, so everyone wins! /s).

Same for contracts where the written language is absurd, and the agreement one party claims without the necessary evidence is way more reasonable, and the court finds in favor of the absurd contract.

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optimalsolver·9h ago
>You made a mistake and now I can get a billion dollars more than we agreed to originally

The world "smart contract" enthusiasts dream of.

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_fizz_buzz_·8h ago
Wouldn't a smart contract also have a statue of limitation built in?
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tsimionescu·8h ago
That's beside the point.

The main idea is that in legal contracts, the written signed paper is just evidence for what the agreed-upon contract was. The actual contract is the agreement itself - which the paper may not reflect exactly. If the two parties disagree on what is the actual contract, the paper is of course strong evidence for one side or the other, but it's not the final word, other evidence may be brought that contradicts the written contract and that can be held to be more convincing.

In contrast, the smart contract crowd wants the contract code to represent the final word, and if any party didn't notice that the contract code didn't match the understanding they had of the agreement, too bad.

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jrm4·6h ago
NO.

Because, as I say repeatedly:

Smart contracts ARE NOT CONTRACTS. Count them in the worst named things in computing.

A contract is a legal agreement that is mostly about stipulations on what to do if things go wrong.

A so-called "smart contract" is doubly bad named -- because it's just a stupid, irrevocable, unchangeable, piece of code. Imagine an ATM with the controls welded shut.

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raattgift·7h ago
A statute is an act of legislation, and a "statute of limitations" typically prevents courts from dealing with claims arising from matters that happened years ago (subject to some exceptions). The public policy arguments are usually that witness memories decay to the point of obvious unreliability, and that the maxim "equity aids the vigilant not those who sleep on their rights" was already the root of the common law doctrine of laches, but scattered over so much case law that putting the concept on a statutory footing is useful for the courts and all litigants (and especially defendants).

(In criminal law, "justice delayed is justice denied" and clarifications of constitutional or treaty requirements for speedy trials also can be tidied up by the legislature in a statute of limitations).

Statute (legislation) is a superior source of law to contract law, and so there is generally no way to contract to avoid being statute barred if a claim for breach of contract (or specific performance, etc.) is made beyond the statutory deadline.

Typically there are carve outs enacted in a statute of limitations that allow a claim to be brought out-of-time if the defendant has acted in a dishonest way that prevented a claim from being filed in time, for certain classes of litigant, or for certain types of claim. (And in criminal law, for certain offences - serious crimes will tend to have a longer, or no, limit on how long after the crime the prosecution is begun).

A statute of limitations typically does not extinguish defences based on the lapse of too much time; but such defences in some jurisdictions may be contracted away, leaving the statutory limit as the hard deadline.

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jameshart·7h ago
A smartly written smart contract would. Will all smart contracts be drafted with such care?
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jrm4·6h ago
No. They will not. And this is why we have law.

There's this thing that people often do, even within the law itself, that's just like "well, you can fix everything by just writing it correctly the first time."

And this will always feel retroactively correct and never workable in practice.

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petcat·7h ago
The smart contract itself may have been the one that contained the mistake. We've seen this happen before and they just had to fork the chain.

It's all nonsense. In the real world people make mistakes and a court should be allowed to override and figure out the right thing to do.

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globular-toast·9h ago
Yeah, it's a little unclear but I think your interpretation is correct. The key is the paragraph beginning with:

> Imagine my surprise: according to the duly signed option agreement, my options were meant to vest over four quarters, not four years, as both NVIDIA’s CFO and their outside counsel, Cooley, had asserted back in 1996.

On first reading it did give me pause because it's the first time "four years" is mentioned. But on another scan I agree it's cleverly written and never actually claims the agreement was four quarters, only that the paperwork says that.

Still it is a funny story, similar to those "I spent 20 Bitcoins on a pizza" ones, I guess.

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klausa·9h ago
There are documents linked in the footnotes that spell this explicitly, you don’t have to infer this:

The offer letter, which spells out “which vests over 4 years”: https://colo.to/invitation.pdf

The option grant which has the accelerated schedule: https://colo.to/grant.pdf

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gchamonlive·9h ago
They should just offer to settle at a reasonable value as if it had been just the four quarters previously agreed, but a smart decision was made to sit on the shares.
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Majromax·8h ago
> They should just offer to settle at a reasonable value

Since litigation is costly, the acceptable range for a settlement is centered around the expected outcome of a trial, plus or minus each party's cost of litigation (including opportunity cost).

In this case, "the claim is barred by the statute of limitations" implies that the expected outcome of litigation would be approximately $0. The net range for a settlement is then the 'nuisance value' of a lawsuit including any PR damage for airing the case publicly; that would be orders of magnitude below the $1bn claim.

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gchamonlive·7h ago
So basically a lower compensation is too low to justify the costs so it's either all in court or nothing? This design seems heavily biased towards the part with larger resources. Cost of litigation should be proportional to a reasonable settlement.
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skinfaxi·6h ago
> Cost of litigation should be proportional to a reasonable settlement.

What do you mean by this?

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fn-mote·9h ago
> just the four quarters previously agreed

Misreading. S/quarters/years/

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gchamonlive·9h ago
It was meant to be four quarters, though. This was a clerical error, so why not offer to settle as if the clerk hadn't made a typo? "Yes technically you are owed this ridiculous amount of money, but it was meant to be a fraction so you get nothing unless you sue" seems harsh from Nvidia.

On the other hand this could open precedent in other cases, current and future, so it's an understandable position not to offer to settle preemptively just for a display of good faith.

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jonas21·16h ago
An open question is what happened to the 15,625 shares that he received when he exercised his options in 1996?

If he had held on to those, they would be worth even more than the additional 9,375 shares he was entitled to -- about $1.7 billion using the same numbers in the post.

My guess is that he probably sold them when they were worth a lot less then they are now, and would have done the same with the additional shares too.

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matsemann·11h ago
Yeah, that's the problem with this. Should one get the present day value of the shares (a billion), or present day value of the worth at that time (thousands)?

It's a bit the same as people making fun of someone buying a pizza with bitcoin, now worth a hundred thousand. It wasn't at the time, and most likely people would've sold it long before when it started to rise. And the hindsight should then be just as much "if you bought a pizza at the time in USD, why didn't you buy bitcoin instead??".

So to me one should get the latter of the two alternatives. People only come out of the woodwork because it suddenly happened to be worth a lot.

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mosburger·6h ago
Yeah, I tell myself this every time I remember clicking "Cancel" on Ameritrade and deciding not to buy Apple stock in 1995. I probably would've sold when it doubled, thinking myself very clever. I wouldn't still have it today.
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seizethecheese·3h ago
I bought bitcoin at $200 and sold at $400 thinking myself clever.
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busyant·7h ago
> People only come out of the woodwork because it suddenly happened to be worth a lot.

I used to work in pharma with a chemist whose medicinal chem team had invented 3 different multi-billion-$ prescription drugs.

He told me ... no one gives a shit about your patents unless you start to make money. when that happens, your competitors suddenly remember that they invented your drug before you did.

He spent a considerable amount of time being deposed by lawyers from rival big-pharma companies.

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Skwid·9h ago
Aye, quite so. I once wiped a drive with a whole bitcoin I mined myself on it.

I'm not that upset because I know for a fact I would have cashed out at the obvious peak of about $30.

The one that does cause the occasional pang of remorse is the million or so dogecoin I gave away, as by the time I realised it was worth anything at all it was worth more than my house

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ewild·7h ago
I had 20,000 Bitcoin at one point from selling RuneScape gold when I was 9.
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hypercube33·8h ago
I did the same but with 16 and maybe somewhere around 30 coins in two wallets I thought I backed up. I was angry but at the time I maybe lost $3-6 (probably way less) so I moved on with my life.
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cryptoz·11h ago
The pizza-bitcoin story is about $1B, not a measly $100,000, FWIW. Assuming you're referring to the 10k BTC for 2 pizzas story, anyway.
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matsemann·11h ago
Maybe, not sure if I'm referencing something concrete or just some common argument, heh. Anyways, my point is that the opportunity cost is the same whether you held bitcoin worth a pizza or usd worth a pizza at the time.
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adventured·10h ago
The pizza Bitcoin story is not about a mere $1 billion.

The guy that sold his Bitcoin for pizza, did multiple transactions (detailed in that forum thread), not one. Somehow this part is lost to history when the story gets told.

He liquidated tens of thousands of Bitcoins.

The tally is a lot closer to ~$4 billion at $82k per coin.

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hlynurd·8h ago
Then there's the question if it would have gotten to 4 billion today if he hadn't used it back then...
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sethops1·6h ago
Bitcoin is still useless as a currency, so I'm not sure that using it to buy some pizzas 20 years ago changed anything.
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Eric_Gullichsen·16h ago
Author here. Thanks for all the comments, I've been hesitant to post this to the court of public opinion, yet curiosity about what the HN community would think caused me to push the button. My lawyers - who were really excellent - represented me (on contingency!) because it seemed the chance of a judge not accepting a motion to dismiss (for a variety of reasons I don't want to detail here) was non-zero. And the process of discovery would be very costly for NVIDIA with depositions from many executives who have better things to do.
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modeless·15h ago
What happened to the $1.7 billion of shares that you did get by exercising your options?
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refurb·10h ago
This is my question. The post states “I received a call that all options had vested so I need to exercise them, so I did”.

Ok? So the author should have those shares to his name?

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modeless·10h ago
Clearly he sold them early, and would have sold these extra ones too if he'd exercised them. It's just weird that he's trying to hide the fact by failing to mention it and ignoring questions about it.

It's OK, dude. We've all been there. You're in good company with Masayoshi Son on this one.

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refurb·8h ago
Yeah I noticed the author is replying to a lot of questions except the question of what happened to the shares that were exercised
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msdz·7h ago
Or the author doesn’t want anyone reading along on the internet to realize that he’s a multi-billionaire.

Which of the possibilities is more likely is anyone’s guess.

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djmips·12h ago
I don't have the same story but I did turn down a job offer from Nvidia in '97 which I think about from time to time.
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walrus01·11h ago
As a 14 year old in 1995 I advised family to put the proceeds from the sale of a house into Microsoft stock, which based on a cursory search would have ended up as some absurd number. One online calculator I'm looking at says $204,000 of stock in 1994 would be $41.2 million today after multiple splits and increase in share value. But nobody takes investment advice from 14 year olds who've spent too much time reading USENET and talking to people on IRC.

Even if they'd only put a fraction of it into MSFT and held it until only 2003 or 2004 it would have been far more than enough to retire on comfortably.

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technothrasher·7h ago
I beat you to it by eight years. I was 16 in 1987 when I asked my father to lend me $5K to invest in Microsoft. It was at ~$0.30/share. That would have been around $8.5M today. He said no. To be fair though, he likely said no simply because he didn't have it to lend me.
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jonasdegendt·9h ago
I remember looking at AMD stock when it was $3.50 to put some money in. Never did because there was a real chance they weren’t going to make it but here we are, shouldn’t have looked at what they’re at now, rough.
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abustamam·11h ago
When i was 7 in 1997 my parents had a little stock ticker widget on their desktop that showed how much their stock investments were worth. Obviously it was a long time ago but I remember often seeing MSFT going red. I didn't know much about anything at the time but I knew that the windows machine i were playing on was made by Microsoft. So I asked my mom what red means and she said it means the company is not doing well and they will sell it. I remember saying something like "but Microsoft is on every computer at school I think you should buy more"

But no one listens to a 7 year old about investments! (Nor should they in most cases, i think i told her to buy more yahoo too)

I dont know how much they held or how much they sold, or if they even sold at all, just a fun memory triggered by your comment:)

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walrus01·11h ago
As I can recall from my memory, my suggestion was also prompted by the marketing hype machine surrounding the retail boxed release of Windows 95 as a hot new thing. And by that point in time it had become quite "common" for middle class households to have a desktop PC which had a CD-ROM drive, sound card, decent "multimedia" capabilities. And people were legitimately eager to upgrade to Windows 95.

It was sufficiently mass market and popular that it was everywhere in Pacific Northwest (Portland to the Canadian border region) television and print media. It was enough of a cultural phenomenon that I remember seeing media coverage of people who lined up outside the retail boxed software store at midnight to purchase it.

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mywacaday·11h ago
Hindsight as they say is 2020 and in early 2020 I bought Nvidia shares as I figured a lot people wouldn't have much to do except play games, sold them in 2022 as I thought there won't be many people upgrading their rigs as things got back to normal and there won't be much demand for graphics cards, made money, could have made more, oh well!
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sodastar·10h ago
as a 13 year old i wanted my mom to take 50 bucks from my summer job to take into btc. BTC was at .06 cent back at the time. Even if i just held it until BTC reached 20$, i wouldnt be working 9-5 right now but rather 9-1.
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madaxe_again·10h ago
I had like 10btc in mtgox when they cut and ran, and never bothered pursuing it as it was “oh well” money.

You never know, in another universe it could have still ended up as nothing.

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Cthulhu_·7h ago
I'd look into it anyway - I believe a lot of people got their BTC or a certain amount of money back as part of a class action or whatever lawsuit.
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madaxe_again·10h ago
I still listen to 14 year old me when it comes to investments, like when in 2016 they whispered “GPUs are going to be hot shit because of this CUDA stuff. And games.” in my middle aged brain.

Gonna listen to my kid when she’s 14, too, as it’s been a strategy that has paid off to date.

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ElProlactin·11h ago
> And the process of discovery would be very costly for NVIDIA with depositions from many executives who have better things to do.

You're almost certainly either misrepresenting or misunderstanding what your attorneys told you.

You would never get to discovery with your complaint. If you sued, NVIDIA would win a motion to dismiss in federal court based on your claim being time-barred.

You have no basis to support decades-long tolling. The possibility that, say, NVIDIA knew what it told you was wrong 30 years ago is not good enough under federal pleading standards to get you to discovery. You would need sufficient evidence to support a claim that NVIDIA intentionally lied, which you obviously don't have otherwise you would have mentioned it in your post.

State court (California) has a few wrinkles but the result ends up being the same.

Basically the legal system is designed to prevent fishing expeditions on decades-old claims. You cannot have possession of an agreement and then run to the courts asking for a billion dollars because you failed for three decades to read it carefully.

If you are past the statute of limitations, the bar is intentionally virtually impossibly high.

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Majromax·8h ago
> You would need sufficient evidence to support a claim that NVIDIA intentionally lied, which you obviously don't have otherwise you would have mentioned it in your post.

Would even an intentional lie act to to reset the limitation period here? The hypothetical lie wasn't a deep secret exposed by some whistleblower, it came to light by... reading the vesting agreement. Since AFAIK limitation periods run from "know or ought to have known," I can't see a viable construction to keep the dispute live after 30 years.

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ElProlactin·7h ago
Yes, his possession of all the agreements for 30+ is what makes this so difficult.

But here's a hypothetical situation (unrealistic) that could change things. Let's say he came into possession of an internal document showing that someone at NVIDIA knew the grant said one year and chose to state 4 years to him anyway. Now he has an argument for fraud, and in California, the statute of limitations for fraud is 3 years from the date when you discover the fraud.

This type of thing could get him past a motion to dismiss provided that he brings the action within the 3 years after discovering the evidence of fraud. But nothing in the post claims this type of evidence. It just seems like a mistake was made and the guy, not knowing what NVIDIA would become, didn't even bother to check the documents he had at the time.

Cool story for the bar or grandkids.

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lisper·13h ago
I don't understand how your name could not have been carried along on the cap table all these years. In my experience when I've made an investment in an early stage company and they have a liquidity event, they come looking for me.
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EsotericSoft·12h ago
They treated it as 4 years, not 4 quarters, so nothing was missing in the books.
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qmr·13h ago
You understand expected value right?

I'm not mathemagician, but a tiny fraction of a billion with a b dollars is worth filing.

If nothing else it gives us all an exciting news cycle.

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danpalmer·12h ago
Expected value usually assumes these things happen in isolation, and they don't. They are good at representing the isolated upside, but rarely do they account for the downside.

In this case a 1% chance of $1bn represents an expected value of $10m. If you accept the cost of litigation as $10m (for example), then your expected value is actually zero. And if you think about the outcomes of the 99% of cases, bankruptcy is hugely painful.

One can always play silly games with expected value. If the "value" of a human life is $10m (supposedly a figure used by some governments), you could pose all sorts of expected value scenarios, but when it's your life that all goes out of the window.

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ElProlactin·11h ago
> In this case a 1% chance of $1bn represents an expected value of $10m.

This case has a 0% chance of anything because of the statute of limitations and no legitimate claim that would allow for decades-long tolling. He'd file suit, NVIDIA would file a motion to dismiss, the court would probably give him one chance to amend (to make an argument about tolling) and then it would be dismissed with prejudice.

If the full agreement had a prevailing-party attorney fee clause, this guy could end up paying NVIDIA's legal fees.

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claiir·11h ago
yea my thought exactly. especially if the lawsuit expenses are on contingency, what is there to lose by filing?
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jimnotgym·11h ago
Presumably the other sides expenses?
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madaxe_again·10h ago
I empathise. I won’t go into detail here, but 20 years ago I built something that went on to be a major commercial success - after I had been coerced into signing over ownership at the pointy end of a lawyer. For not dissimilar reasons, it’s a lost cause at this point.

For what it’s worth, I just view it as part of the lottery of life. You win some, you lose some, you learn plenty.

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jrowen·14h ago
Thanks for sharing your story in straightforward detail. Do you believe, in an ethical sense (independent of the legal sense), that you are owed roughly a billion dollars?

It sounds like you were rather negligent as well. You didn't care to have any inkling of memory of the vesting schedule in 1996, or just to double check and "wrap up" the financial details of that agreement after the work was done?

It does seem somewhat suspect to elide mention of what became of the shares that you did own, and that you only re-noticed Nvidia in 2024. Every 14 year old PC nerd/gamer knew that name in 2001. It is quite a feat of negligence to wait that long to dig this up.

You seem like a decent person, and I do believe that you are justly owed something, but I must admit that I find this to be a depressing tale of rich people spinning wheels for naught. A modest inflation-adjusted multiple of the original value of the options seems reasonable.

Before anyone accuses me of shilling or white-knighting for a major corporation, I don't have any broader sympathy for them and I would generally take the side of David over Goliath, which I think some commenters are making this out to be, but it seems more like Mini-Goliath and Mega-Goliath are bikeshedding and David has no stake in the matter.

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mrb·12h ago
"You didn't care to have any inkling of memory of the vesting schedule in 1996, or just to double check and "wrap up" the financial details of that agreement after the work was done?"

Give the guy a break. It was a check of 700 bucks for exercising shares in a small (at the time) company that was not even public. Most people would probably not notice the error in the 1 year vs 4 year exercise schedule. Especially because 4 years is the standard, so that seems rather normal to agree to that even though it was an error and differing from the original offer.

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philipallstar·13h ago
> A modest inflation-adjusted multiple of the original value of the options seems reasonable.

But why? The OP (apparently) owns some of Nvidia. It seems reasonable to get that ownership recognised.

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alex43578·13h ago
While not a letter of the law argument, there's a spirit of the law argument here that comes from the ideas like adverse posession and the statute of limitations. The OP didn't use or even worry about the options/shares for 30 some years: the time to speak up and assert ownership was literal decades ago.

If someone has built a house on a remote lot you claim to own, while making property improvements and paying taxes, but you've never visited for 30 years; are you really entitled to swoop in and seize their house now?

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abustamam·11h ago
I dont think the land ownership analogy is quite as simple as you're making it out to be, given that the US and many other countries are literally founded on "someone else's land" and the entire Palestine / Israel issue.
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b112·10h ago
The US is not founded on 'someone else's land'. Small portions of the US perhaps, yes, and treaties and courts work through that. Most Indians were hunter/gatherers, and suggesting that because someone roves through massive tracts of land is ownership, is beyond weird.

Seasonal camping sites make sense, more from a 'our land' perspective.

And naturally any signed treaties should be honoured.

You may say "But, they were here first!", yet that's quite false. Native Americans invaded as well, either subsuming or slaughtering existing populations as they did so. Further, Native Americans warred, fought, killed each other, just as Europeans, Middle Easterners, and everyone else on the planet did. After all, human is human is human, and that's (sadly) what humans do.

And if you look at every other country on the planet, the precise same is true. Locals pushed aside as newcomers invaded, whether the UK, Scotland, Russia, Germany, the Middle East, literally every place on the planet.

There is no peoples, no country, no ethic group, which has not over time invaded another.

There is no one alive today, that does not stand on land once called 'home' by another.

You may wonder why I say this, but instead of discussing a land plot inside a Western country taken over by another citizen, you immediately dove into Native American rights and a Middle Eastern conflict for some inexplicable reason.

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someonebaggy·12h ago
In civil law countries, you would be. That's why Europe has the reputation for being tangled in bureaucracy. Every possible risk has to be discharged before you can do anything at all.
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sdenton4·11h ago
One man's negligence is another man's HODL... Buying and holding an asset is a completely sound investment strategy.
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nobodywillobsrv·12h ago
Physical land is quite different. And if squatting is legal, it makes a kind of tax of ownership and also means that any registry is invalid.

If you are saying the physical house only and not the land that is different yes. Someone who can move the house obviously should still own the house. Trespassing usually doesn't invalidate ownership of all your belongings.

More important is the meta concept of like we write confusing contracts and then execute them and we agree on an end date (all transactions done) and then informally and implicitly we agree that if anything was wrong you only have z years after close date to fix it.

This is kind of thing where big people can do it themselves and other people perhaps need a regulated entity to review their docs ... Like mortgages and what not.

The interesting thing here would be if the IRS decides to have an opinion ...

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Ylpertnodi·11h ago
> ; are you really entitled to swoop in and seize their house now?

In the country i am, yes. If you have the paperwork.

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locallost·12h ago
Yes, you are entitled. This has been a big point of contention in Eastern Europe after the fall of communism. A lot of the property was nationalized, their former owners defected, and then the heirs came back decades later requesting their property back. In some cases where there was a house, there was now a 15-story building.

Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi

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Eric_Gullichsen·13h ago
Ethically? Difficult question. I may not be a decent person as you posit, but I do like to think of myself as reasonable. I certainly never expected NVIDIA to say "aw shucks" and write me a billion dollar check. At the last lawyer meeting we proposed to settle for a far smaller number, which both sides agreed was reasonable. A number not picked out of a hat, but based on rather complex nuances such as the likelihood I would have sold etc.etc. derived from much legal thought. And they still made the call to say nope. I think it is perfectly clear from the options contract what the vesting term was. And certainly I erred in not realizing this earlier, before the statute of limitations tolled. Though in 1996 the stock was priced at 5 cents, so not something I paid enough attention to, not having the foresight or perhaps the necessary faith in Jensen's perseverance, intelligence, and luck. Hindsight is cheap.
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simonebrunozzi·10h ago
A good framework would have been this: for the options you received, let's see what you did. Did you trade them 3 years later, resulting in $X amount? Then, let's assume you would have done the same with the missing stock options. I would guess that the amount would be really negligible - in the tens or hundreds of thousands, at most. Ethically, I think this is where I would consider it fair to both parties.

Then, you neglected this for ~30 years. It's fair to say that Nvidia doesn't owe you anything at this point.

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-mlv·9h ago
Wouldn't be surprised if you weren't the only person with equity in nvidia around that time with similar paperwork errors, were that to be the case if word got around they settled with you, more people would start coming forward for the easy money.
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popalchemist·13h ago
If I were you I would refrain from offering thoughts like this publicly. You don't want to hav any of this used against you.
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throwawayffffas·12h ago
It is clear he has decided to not pursue this any further.
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nujabe·12h ago
That doesn’t mean we should encourage him.
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imtringued·12h ago
Your blog post is making a logical error. You're assuming that you're being owed the right to exercise your options retroactively so you calculate the foregone value of the stock you could have had if you exercised, which is dishonest because they can only deliver expired options to you.

You could still sue Nvidia for compensation, assuming no statue of limitations, but the thing you can be compensated for is a completely different thing. You can still be compensated the value of the option. I.e. the difference between the strike price and the market price 30 years ago. That's the thing you can sue for. You cannot retroactively extend the option because longer duration options have a higher premium so you would be telling Nvidia to pay you more money than they contractually obligated themselves.

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nujabe·12h ago
He did exercise those options.
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someonebaggy·12h ago
Are you a lawyer?
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tasuki·11h ago
Are you going to ask this question to everyone who writes anything in this discussion?

It's beside the point whether he's a lawyer. He's not your lawyer, that's for sure. The "no medical nor legal advice but otherwise you can advise anything" idea is beyond stupid.

Judge advice on its merit, not by what category it's in.

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someonebaggy·11h ago
Knowing whether a lawyer believes a legal theory helps judge the merit of that theory, because civil law conventions are what lawyers (including judges) believe.
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abustamam·11h ago
It's the internet, anyone can say they're a lawyer. If you take legal advice from an internet stranger because they say they're a lawyer, well i might have a bridge to sell you
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binlog·14h ago
> Here in the land of the free, it turns out a company only has to honor its contractual obligations for a little while.

If Nvidia showed you contract paperwork that proved they overpaid you 9,375 shares in 1993, would you agree to pay them back the present value? After all contracts should be enforceable indefinitely right?

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tonyhart7·10h ago
Yeah, I agree with this

there should be "expiration", after all he didn't doing anything for 30 years

Imagine if Nvidia is not as big today, he wouldn't bother to make a claim

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lordnacho·9h ago
The angle I haven't heard, yet I think would make the most sense, is that you both understood the agreement correctly, at the time.

Somebody did the paperwork wrong, but paperwork isn't the agreement. You agreed what you agreed, thought everything was in order, and then discovered an error in the documents.

It doesn't seem like there's a claim here.

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YPPH·8h ago
At the risk of being reductive, I think that under the common law, contract terms are usually interpreted objectively unless they are ambiguous, in which case you might consider extraneous evidence. Clear language is enforced as written.
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nsomaru·8h ago
Depends upon the canon of construction for written contracts that you accept as correct.
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reticulates·16h ago
You are ultimately responsible for asserting your contractual rights. Your stock options had an expiry and you did not exercise them in time. The letter you received notifying that you had 15,625 vested options was not an award in of itself, it was only a courtesy notifying you that you had vested options to exercise before they expired. Even if due to ambiguous wording it could be argued that 25,000 options had vested at the time instead of 15,625, that was only relevant until the options expired. You needed to assert your rights to the [additional 9,375] vested options before they expired. So, this issue died in 1996.

I had a similar experience although over a shorter time horizon. I was in a dispute with a corporation which prompted me to pore over every word in every previously signed agreement. I discovered, due to an obvious typo in a stock option agreement, more options had vested than had been intended. After some pushback, they eventually relented and awarded me the options.

Given the amount of money involved, it was worth engaging lawyers to see if NVIDIA would pay you some money to save the hassle of dealing with it, but there is and was zero prospect of this ever being awarded in your favor by a court since the options expired.

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kevmo314·16h ago
The article states that they exercised their options.
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reticulates·16h ago
No, it doesn't.

https://colo.to/exercise.pdf

They exercised 15,625 options of the 25,000. The OP sent $781.25 to NVIDIA. The remaining 9,375 options were not exercised, they expired 90 days after April 16th 1996.

Only in hindsight, 30 years later, has the OP realized that the other 9,375 had vested due to ambiguous wording in the agreement. The article is about the 9,375 that were not exercised.

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donbox·16h ago
So 15,625 were exercised.
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Eric_Gullichsen·16h ago
Yeah. The issue being that at the time both the CFO and their external counsel Cooley told me in writing that 15,625 shares had vested. Those representations were incorrect. And I (quite reasonably) replied on them rather than checking the original documents. Which I did only 30+ years later. In legal terms, the CFO Gani’s 1996 letter is a negligent misrepresentation, a species of fraud under Cal. Civ. Code § 1709-1710.
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lazyasciiart·15h ago
Well, the bad news is that the statute of limitations on that appears to be three years in California.
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cloudbonsai·15h ago
What happened to 15,625 shares you did exercise? I guess they are worth over $1.5 billion as of today?
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schneems·15h ago
> replied on them

I think this is a typo.

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ElProlactin·14h ago
> And I (quite reasonably) replied on them rather than checking the original documents.

Putting aside the fact that any claims here are almost certainly time barred after 30 years, ostensibly, your attorney explained to you that because you had the grant in your possession, claiming that you reasonably relied on the company's statement about what the grant said would weigh heavily against any misrepresentation or fraud causes of action in a lawsuit.

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qmr·13h ago
Equitable tolling??

Might as well sue.

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j45·15h ago
I'm no expert, but did your lawyers clarify if a statute of limitation start from the date you learned there might be a discrepancy, instead of all those years ago?

While no one's hands might be clean in this, at the end of the day the party with the resources and expertise is equipped differently.

It might not hurt to get some more opinions even if they end up in the same place.

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bradly·15h ago
I've never been on either side of one of situations, but if the company is doing well, why doesn't the company just take care of the human? These don't really seem like opening-the-flood-gates types of decisions and companies could just choose to do if they wanted to, right?
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brettgriffin·15h ago
You don't see the risk that is created when you allow unexercised options get called at a later date, when they're in the money, because the company is 'doing well'?
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literalAardvark·11h ago
The options are exercised. OOP didn't do any diligence, got shorted, cared too late.
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bradly·14h ago
No, I guess I don't. The companies can choose to do what they want and I think they can make a different decision based on how well they are doing. I don't know. They don't have to, but I don't see why they couldn't.
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seryoiupfurds·14h ago
If that were the case, why would anyone pay to exercise options ever again?
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imtringued·13h ago
Correct.

The last time someone decided that an option shouldn't expire got us inflation, unemployment, inequality and a debt crisis.

Good thing that we stopped right???

Looks at the funding rate of his options in his wallet that he uses to buy things at the supermarket. Still no funding rate in sight.

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crossroadsguy·15h ago
One of the reasons such companies do well is they don't entertain "such things". Sad. But that's besides the point.
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hdgvhicv·15h ago
Not taking about $5k or even $5m. A billion dollars is a hell if a lot of money.
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bradly·14h ago
The shares are worth what their worth. People would have lost their minds and then everyone would have moved on. Is NVIDIA filled with more billion dollar typos? I don't think so, but I wouldn't care if it was.
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hdgvhicv·13h ago
This ain’t David va Goliath. It’s two billionaires fighting it out.

Unless of course the op sold the 15k shares he did get years ago.

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dgellow·11h ago
A few do, I’ve been really lucky to work with a startup that got acquired earlier this year and took really great care of the whole team, even people whose options didn’t vest yet. After reading so many horror stories of acquisitions that was a relief to see the whole leadership and team work together to ensure people are taken care of.

I wish that was the usual situation

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xyst·15h ago
[flagged]
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dang·13h ago
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

We don't need you to love capitalism (or billionaires), we just need you to stop posting low-effort flamebait comments like this one (or https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49840585). You may not owe capitalism or billionaires better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.

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neom·15h ago
This guy has had some interesting side quests.

https://time.com/archive/6735546/hes-the-master-of-his-domai...

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FinnKuhn·10h ago
This German newspaper describes his life in (or on?) Tonga in even more detail: https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/portrait-einmal-tongaer-...

It is a very interesting read, and I can only recommend it. Some of it is one sentence after another that left me astonished.

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a3w·8h ago
Just today I clicked a to shortlink for my German Univeristy and thought "curious they use a non-EU shortlinker, is that legal or secure?".
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rkagerer·15h ago
Love to hear how that self-sustaining island project worked out!
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darkwater·8h ago
Well, https://www.tonic.to/ is still online and working today. Don't know if it's still owned by OP.
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jwpapi·8h ago
As this is an interesting story I think we need a change to HN algorithm.

The title is misleading, they don’t owe him.

The story is NVIDIA made a mistake and OP tried to exploit it and failed and is now grabbing another straw with that post.

It was not intentional shares to his or Nvidia’s understanding.

Everybody reading the actual story would not just upvote this.

The upvotes must be simple big corp hate +misleading title

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tempestn·15h ago
It seems to me that if OP had been granted 25k shares instead of 15k, he would have sold 25k shares instead of 15k. So even aside from the statute of limitations, the damages would be something like the value of 10k shares in 1993, perhaps plus 30 years of interest.
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lazyasciiart·15h ago
The value in 1996 when he could have exercised these options was probably $0 since Nvidia hadn’t gone public and was at risk of going bankrupt.
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tempestn·13h ago
Apparently he parted with the 15k shares at some point though, so presumably whatever price those were sold for is what all 25k would have been sold for, had he received them.
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alistairSH·1h ago
I'm confused, 4 quarters or 4 years, he never exercised the remaining batch of options, so what is the basis of his suit? That somebody should have reminded him he had options outstanding? What am I getting wrong or missing here?
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whall6·17h ago
You should sell your right to litigate this. There are hundreds of firms that would pay you to take this on. Would involve near zero effort for you and would also check the box of being “about the principle”.
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bragr·15h ago
I doubt it for three very big reasons and you're wrong about one big point:

1. Time barring is pretty iron clad. Sucks for the author but consider the alternative where anyone could sue anyone after any period of time.

2. If a court did find in favor of the plaintiff, the court would be more likely to award the 90s cash value of the stock, plus interest, rather than awarding the shares or current market value (damages being how he was actually wronged in the 90s rather than speculating what he might have done with the stock to present)

3. Given 1 and 2, Nvidia is unlikely to make a big settlement, meaning an expensive and risky trial.

Which brings us to hidden reason #4: nobody would pay that much for the rights so it probably isn't worth the author's time. He'd still be the man at the center of the suit: depositions, testimony, cross examination, records subpoenas...

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greyface-·15h ago
> but consider the alternative where anyone could sue anyone after any period of time

What's the problem with this alternative, exactly? Some crimes already have no statute of limitations, and this hasn't caused the sky to fall.

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ehe78qhe·15h ago
It would create a burden on businesses to keep all records indefinitely (most businesses only keep around 7 years of most records). This has a monetary cost to it that would disadvantage mature businesses against younger ones.
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wahern·14h ago
It's not just a burden for the immediate parties. Having the ability to dispute rights and obligation going back indeterminate amounts of time adds risk to the rights and obligations of untold numbers of third-parties; everybody's interests become more interdependent and intertwined the more time has elapsed. One of the important functions of a legal system is to settle rights and obligations. Settled, transparent rights and obligations are also integral to notions of fairness and justice, so it's not a zero sum thing that statutes of limitations sacrifice fairness for cold transactional efficiency.
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gravypod·15h ago
In an era of digital records keeping, this does not sound impossible.
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ElProlactin·13h ago
It's not just about storage. It's about fairness and creating an environment where people can transact in a relatively stable and predictable manner.

It is inherently unfair and destabilizing if people can sit on alleged wrongs, violations of agreements, etc. indefinitely, either intentionally or because they were ignorant or negligent, and then raise those wrongs in the court system any time they choose to.

A statute of limitations basically says "take your rights and obligations seriously and when you have a dispute over them with another party, raise it in a reasonable amount of time or forever hold your peace".

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ehe78qhe·15h ago
Even in the era of digital records it has a monetary cost; keeping decades of emails, documents, audio and video recordings is not free. I have friends working for software businesses that make many millions per customer just managing and retaining documents.
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ozozozd·15h ago
Yeah I never understand this idea that “if you avoid getting caught long enough, you deserve to enjoy the spoils of your crime.”
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ehe78qhe·15h ago
1. The state generally has more resources to retain evidence than citizens; if the state is allowed to prosecute crimes far in the past, they can target defendants who cannot provide evidence in their defense due to lost records. This asymmetry can be unjust, especially for crimes of lesser impact.

2. Most people draw a line where it seems needlessly cruel to prosecute an old crime; an extreme example, should a middle-aged person with decades of good behavior live in fear of being prosecuted for a relatively small crime committed as a teenager? Conversely, if a person commits a crime as a teenager, shouldn't they have clemency if they stop committing crimes for a long time and become a good citizen? Most people prefer the outcome that people can put smaller mistakes behind them; they may debate where to draw the lines, of course.

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sire-vc·12h ago
There is also the practical matter that after 30 years it is very difficult to prove anything. Witnesses are gone, documents are missing etc. Satute of limitations is more about practicality than anything else.
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jcranmer·14h ago
A few reasons:

- If you wait too long to pursue a case, then the reliability of evidence goes down, as people lose older records, memories fail, physical infrastructure is replaced, etc.

- Statutes of limitations diminish the ability of malicious accusers to pursue cases against their targets.

- Statutes of limitations also create a sense of finality to a situation; it prevents people from coming out of the woodwork to unsettle something settled 20 years ago.

- In general, the clock runs from when you first find out about an injury to when you can first take action do something about it. That action isn't necessarily to actually file a lawsuit; there are often many things you can do to pause or reset the clock before filing the lawsuit.

- They also incentivize people to pursue redress sooner rather than later, with the concomitant benefits of doing so.

- If it takes you, say, five years to figure out that you are really mad about being injured by somebody... why were you fine with it for five years? It really undercuts your argument about the seriousness of the injury to delay for so long.

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echoangle·15h ago
At least in Germany, you can restart the expiration by trying to enforce the claim. So you can’t just wait and avoid getting caught, the other side basically has to forget about you.
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tgsovlerkhgsel·16h ago
> After much soul-searching, deliberation, and gnashing of teeth, my attorneys and I concluded that the statute of limitations was against us. Because of the thirty-odd years that had passed while I “sat on my rights,” it seemed unlikely we’d make it past a motion to dismiss.

That was my first thought as well.

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edoceo·15h ago
Statue of limitations hasn't started because the acts in 1996 by the company and officers are part of an ongoing conspiracy. Maybe?

Source: cannabis and Law&Order reruns.

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Legend2440·16h ago
Would they? Surely they'd realize that they too have no chance of winning because of the same issue.
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windexh8er·16h ago
Unless the options grant had specific language of an expiry period I would gather there's a very good chance of a large payout. I don't know why you wouldn't go after closure of this if you found yourself in the same scenario. Many legal agreements are simply a percentage of winnings and no payments otherwise. Seems pretty obvious to take that route.
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mayoff·16h ago
Eric didn’t post the full stock option agreement, only its cover sheet. Given the language of the 1996 termination letter, it’s a good guess that the full agreement specified expiration 90 days after termination.
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imtringued·11h ago
>Unless the options grant had specific language of an expiry period I would gather there's a very good chance of a large payout

You're intentionally trying to muddle the waters here by arguing along two different axis.

1. the contract granting options has a delivery period (in your words "expiry period")

2. the options themselves have a duration (aka expiry period)

When you are saying "Unless the options grant had specific language of an expiry period" you are only talking about the delivery period of the options. Aka when the options become available. So you are not complaining about late delivery, you're complaining about lack of delivery.

When you are saying "I would gather there's a very good chance of a large payout." you are intentionally confusing (1.) with (2.). The delivered options have a value on the open market and that value was not delivered. Hence there is a contradiction. You're saying "large payout" but the options are only worth a fraction of the shares at the time the issues vested. You do not get to simulate the most optimal future that you would have exercised the options and held them for thirty years, you have to prove that yourself and the best time to prove that was 27 years ago aka within the statue of limitations. Now that 30 years passed, you have to argue that you would have held the options all the way until today and exercised them today, but the grant only covers the option premium at the time of the grant, not the option premium of a 30 year long option. So Nvidia can still give you your options but the options would give you the exact same duration as the options back then and you would get exactly the same premium on them.

Basically you could make Nvidia the offer to settle for the value of the options so that you stay quiet and don't sue them, that's what your lawyers can get out of that contract.

Edit: Correction with regards to how big the payout can be, can be found here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49874789

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dooglius·16h ago
"no chance" can still be 1/1000 which is ~1 million
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wolfi1·16h ago
the lawyers cost more
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rfgplk·12h ago
GPT/Claude are a $100/month subscription
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JumpCrisscross·16h ago
Or, find one of the many interest groups who have a non-economic reason to hate NVIDIA.

What OP has here is a license to go on a fishing expedition through NVIDIA.

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binlog·16h ago
Why would anyone buy that right? Statute of limitations is crystal clear here. The case is going to be dismissed the moment it gets in front of a judge.
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raldi·16h ago
Out of curiosity, why do you think you know that?
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raincole·16h ago
For reasons, but the main one is that the author stated that they and their attorneys have seriously explored this case and reached this conclusion.
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binlog·16h ago
https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/civil-lawsuit/statute-limitat...

> Breach of a written contract: 4 years from the date the contract was broken.

Which part do you think is debatable?

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piotrkaminski·16h ago
This part:

> Sometimes, if the problem (like the injury or damage) was not discovered right away, the statute of limitations generally starts counting from the date the problem was discovered or should reasonably have been discovered, whichever comes first.

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binlog·15h ago
The problem should reasonably have been discovered when they signed the contract and it wasn’t fulfilled. No new information has come to light in the 30 years since.
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raldi·16h ago
Not sure; I didn't go to law school.
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binlog·16h ago
The lawyers representing the author did, and came to this exact conclusion.
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yeukhon·15h ago
I think you may be right but also may be wrong. If that was indeed the case, they wouldn't have to respond to him for a whole year. nVidia knew they screwed up back in 1996, but was 100% uncertain like you are. There is 5-10% chance that a judge would accept this on the basis that this was grossly incompetently misrepresented in 1996 and OP actually has some ground for suing. There is serious financial loss here. If I received 1000 shares from Meta for my work during my full time employee and then keep thinking I had 1000 shares invested for 30 years, but turns out no I do not, that's a big loss!
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lazyasciiart·15h ago
It’s the other way round. For 30 years he has happily believed that he received 16k shares. Now he learns that he was owed another 7k at the time but neither party in the transaction noticed and he wants them to pay the difference now.
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hdgvhicv·14h ago
Presumably he kept those 16k shares and is sitting on $2b, so why bother with the hassle. Normal people don’t care about the second billion.

Or he sold them years ago for far less than they are worth now, in which case he could have a claim for the original shares which were worth a few k after interest.

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mypalmike·12h ago
It’s not even shares though, which he would have a much stronger case with. It’s options, which inevitably have an expiry date.
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imtringued·11h ago
Nvidia's share price at the IPO was $12 and his strike price was $0.05. He's owed the monetary value of those options, basically ($12-$0.05) times number of options and that should be around $100k+. He was never owed shares.
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pclmulqdq·16h ago
There’s already a relatively liquid market here around legal financing, but they only finance cases that can win. This is not a case that will result in anything but a dismissal.
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whall6·16h ago
I am not a lawyer. If you are, then I will consider this response null and void… but if you’re not, just go to your LLM du jour and ask it why this case might have ground. If it is even 1% convincing then imagine what sort of case a real attorney could come up. Then multiply the odds of winning against a billion dollars. A >0.01% chance EV would probably catalyze at least one of these firms.
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pclmulqdq·15h ago
That’s not how the real world works. Sometimes the chance of winning is actually 0, and sometimes when you pursue something frivolously you actually end up having to pay the other side’s fees. The EV of a lawsuit can easily be less than 0.
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hvb2·14h ago
Make sure you ask it why it wouldn't work too. Because its answer given the same facts will be different depending on the question asked
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gamblor956·16h ago
No it would not.

Firms can be sanctioned for pursuing cases knowing the statute of limitations has expired.

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imtringued·12h ago
Even if they won, Nvidia would only be obligated to deliver a fresh option contract. E.g. they would issue options today with the same strike price difference. The options mentioned in the block post are not worth more than $9000 and even that is generous. Selling those options on the open market probably would have generated $2250 in income.

Let's say those options were worth $0.25 back then, Nvidia would have to issue an option with a strike price of $224.72 at a share price of $225.07 and the same duration to honor the contract. They could also set the issue date and duration to be the IPO day and the strike price the IPO share price, but then the premium difference would have to compensate the gap between the IPO price and the current price and you'd have to pay that premium difference out of pocket to simulate the fact that you kept holding an option, then let it expire and kept paying the premium to buy new options to extend it.

Edit: I didn't read the letter when I wrote this so my numbers are off. He might be owed $100k+ worth of options if the strike price was $0.05 and the share price was $12. I apologize for wrong numbers, but the general concept should stay valid.

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bambax·12h ago
> Here in the land of the free, it turns out a company only has to honor its contractual obligations for a little while.

Eceryone everywhere appears to hate statuses of limitations, but they exist for a reason, namely that after some time society needs to move on. It may be disappointing, or even cruel, for the victims, but we can't keep litigating the past forever.

Espescially so in the "land of the free" which is the land of lawyers and lawsuits.

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throooooo·12h ago
I can only hope that my bank will someday feel the same way about my mortgage.
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nikanj·12h ago
If you had some mistake on your mortgage paperwork in 1993, your bank would probably feel that way about it already.
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walrus01·12h ago
I realize we're talking about a civil case here and not criminal but it's not factually correct to say statutes of limitations always prevent a historical wrong from being addressed. There's a number of jurisdictions which have no statue of limitations on sexual assault cases for example.

Somewhat randomly chosen reference:

https://www.richardnelsonllp.co.uk/guides/statute-of-limitat...

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lucideer·12h ago
> we can't keep litigating the past forever

It's worth pointing out this reasoning is usually considered self-evident. I've rarely seen anyone doing any kind of deepdive into a practical reason for this.

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defrost·12h ago
There are only two broad outcomes, either things stay as they are, or much of the US is returned any remaining descendents of various treaty signatories.

The first is effectively a waste of time, the second a messy descent into hell on all sides.

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lucideer·11h ago
> a messy descent into hell on all sides

Certainly messy & certainly hellish for some. For "all sides" though? I guess maybe if we're counting the fact it would paint a large target on the back of any beneficiaries.

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defrost·11h ago
In the hypothetical .. the infighting between those who are "tribe" V "not tribe" and proportioning any cash value carve outs alongside custodial issues of the land etc has the potential to be a bunfight - such issue already exist.

Moving away from native title, there are also many "peppercorn leases" bequeathed to various cities about the globe - large parks carved out from once larger farming estates, now fully urbanised and embedded within a sea of million dollar lots and apartments.

Should anyone sue over the park land no longer being a pure park (for example) or for petty reasons of "peppercorn" rent not being paid (ie violation of the terms of the gift to the city), the park would be returned to the rightful descendants .. an army of (say) fourth and fifth generation offspring all at odds for recognition and weighting and a piece of very valuable real estate.

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stdbrouw·12h ago
As a parent of young children it rarely makes sense to litigate anything that happened more than 10 minutes ago, so perhaps people extrapolate from there :-) I'd enjoy that deep dive, though.
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lucideer·11h ago
That's fair!

At least between adults though, such statutes do appear to overwhelmingly protect the holders of power/wealth/etc. from relinquishing said power/wealth/etc. It's hard to see broad societal benefits of statutes that are diametrically opposed to the interests of victims in all common cases.

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pinkgolem·12h ago
I mean, there are very valid reasons behind it.

People are not expected to hold onto there documents forever, humans forget.. and change

Figuring out what happened 3 years ago is hard, figuring out what happened 30 years ago is near impossible & often wrong

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lucideer·12h ago
This doesn't really seem like a valid reason & I suspect is misdirection.

If this were the case, litigating these instances would simply end quickly due to lack of evidence. There would be no cause for such a statute in such cases.

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zhivota·8h ago
It is a valid reason. I'm involved in a title dispute on land in the Philippines. The most recent ruling from the Supreme Court was made in 1991 on a case originally filed in 1903.

Worse, the ruling required voluntary action from all title holders on an island, which of course was not taken.

At this point, all of the original litigants and judges are dead, and many of the descendants involved in 1991 are dead too. Every generation that passes expands the number of people who have a stake through inheritance.

In this case it's not as simple as a statute of limitations because land ultimately has to be titled, but these are some of the types of issues you run into if you don't have a time limit on things. People die. Papers get lost or destroyed. Organizations disband or get sold.

It's just better not to allow the complexity to overwhelm the legal system.

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pinkgolem·8h ago
No, they would not, as one side could keep there evidence, so if after x years the opposite side has Destroit/lost/forgotten there evidence of the transaction you could "prove" something invalid

Your comment strikes me like you never had any lawsuits?

That is, btw, a thing that is already happening.

One example is people leaving the church, the state deleting the evidence after 10 years, and the church asking for it after 11

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dgellow·12h ago
I don’t understand how that fits the author situation. Society isn’t a party, there is no crime or anything like that. We are talking about contractual terms
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pugworthy·16h ago
To satisfy the curious, "I have been everything, and nothing is worth it."

Well quoted.

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jadar·16h ago
Thanks!
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omgJustTest·15h ago
Read papers given to you!

When someone dismisses your interpretation it serves to understand it well.

Additionally: A contractual mistake would likely not return specific performance (stock) unless special conditions were met.

For example: a company makes a stock mistake, you observe that at the time it happens, but then do nothing until you see the stock increase in value. Company could assert you _were_ due the stock but the value of that stock is determined by the time-of-breach and they return you $.

Unless you had a substantial claim to voting interest would probably be monetary reward!

NYL

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Ylpertnodi·11h ago
> Read papers given to you!

I put all received documents, including mega-page bank contracts into chatgpt (etc) to ask questions about the contract. My bank hates me - I ask the awkward questions. Like "what disadvantages does this contract hold for me? Once again they unilaterally changed the contract(!) - what has been added and taken away? Etc.

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cheema33·15h ago
> Read papers given to you!

I don't. I blame on the ADHD. Or maybe its laziness.

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omgJustTest·15h ago
it is laziness! and what is surprising is it saves a lot of grief if you read it.

people will go to _amazing_ lengths not to read something new or unfamiliar. That feeling of "i must be dumb" is most often the reason people avoid it, and is just the normal part of learning something new.

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merek·16h ago
> Then, in April 1996 - by which time I’d expatriated to the Kingdom of Tonga and was working on various internet startup schemes

Why would an American working in software in the mid 90s expatriate to Tonga, a tiny island nation, population ~100k, virtually no tech industry, with little or no internet back then? (assuming Eric is American).

Maybe a govt IT contract, but it sounds at odds to "working on various internet startup schemes".

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Barbing·15h ago
Tax (not cheating!,) optimization?

(Retract the cheating dig if not applicable. Make it in the first place b/c I’m bummed when folks who make their money thanks to a country’s infra, laws, etc. don’t pay their fair share, at least in those cases when there’s so much you can even give back half and have immense riches.)

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merek·15h ago
Don't Americans pay US tax regardless of where they live?
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gnopgnip·15h ago
The first $130k or so is excluded if you are outside the us for 11.5 months. Not sure what the amount was in 1997
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Eric_Gullichsen·15h ago
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merek·15h ago
Thanks for sharing. Do you have any writing on your experience living and working in Tonga?
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lquist·17h ago
Why does a stockholder have to reassert their rights to hold the stock that they already own?
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s0rce·16h ago
They don't own the stock as I understand it but never received options which they should have and would have been able to exercise. I assume they sold the remainder of the options long ago otherwise they have $3b in NVDA already and probably wouldn't have written this post.
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al_borland·15h ago
And if they sold the others, had they been given the additional shares, they would have very likely sold those too. So even if everything went correctly, nothing of substance would have changed. It only looks that way in a mythical history with perfect hindsight, where the stock was held for 30 years.
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whall6·17h ago
Plethora of reasons, but right to title is not as black and white as anyone assumes. There is no govt ledger that keeps track of who owns what, everything is always subject to interpretation. If you own a home, you likely had to purchase title insurance. If you don’t know what that’s for, look it up. It will give you the same answer to this question.
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manwe150·16h ago
Also seems like it isn’t clear that they ever owned it. There appears to be a mistake in the contract asserting mutually inconsistent clauses, but it appears that both parties agreed on the not-owning interpretation for nearly 30 years, which might already be a far simpler contract resolution (depending on jurisdiction, it can almost immediately binding as soon as both parties accent to that reading) than also having waited out the statute of limitations
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binlog·16h ago
They do not own the stock, because the options never vested and thus were never exercised. The time to assert that claim was 30 years ago.
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acchow·16h ago
> NVIDIA’s CFO wrote me a letter stating that 15,625 shares of my stock options had vested, and that I was required to exercise them. I did, and then forgot all about it.
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binlog·16h ago
Read the whole thing again. They aren’t complaining about the 15,625 shares (which they presumably sold a long time ago) but the remaining 25,000–15,625.
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Beijinger·16h ago
"NVIDIA’s CFO wrote me a letter stating that 15,625 shares of my stock options had vested, and that I was required to exercise them. I did, and then forgot all about it."

Normally this is a right to buy at a given price. If he was billed for it, then there is very little chance NVIDIA can weasel they way out ot it. I suspect he never paid for the shares.

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jcheng·16h ago
Those shares were fine, it was the other 9,375 that were in question here.
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ZiiS·10h ago
For me the fair outcome would be Nvidia paying the 1996 share-price + inflation; not the 2026 share-price. They could neither force him to hold them for 30 years; not prevent him from having bought as many as he wanted. The only error was they slightly underpaid him.

I can also see why these claims age out; else all old companies would have enough uncertainty they would be uninvestable.

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ZiiS·10h ago
I also wonder if he paid the correct taxes if he earned 1 billion dollars in 1996.
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isatty·16h ago
Way of my league here but if it starts with a B and they said sue them, why not go ahead and sue them?

You’re not the only one who want to see this go somewhere.

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ValentineC·16h ago
Litigation is expensive, and the OP knows that the statute of limitations is against them, so it'll likely turn out to be an even more expensive lesson.
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ismepornnahi·11h ago
But I thought if payout is high, litigation can be free and agreed to a percentage of possible payout?
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alpineman·12h ago
The only thing starting with a B is the bluff the in house counsel is asking them to call
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coef2·11h ago
When I worked at a startup, I didn't care about my stock option at all. My expectation is really low for any early stage companies. I understand why something like this could happen.

The author would have sold the shares before Nvidia stock skyrocketed even if he had received them. So, the actual loss might not be as large as a billion dollars in reality.

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koolba·6h ago
Given his advanced age, he should have sold his lawsuit rights. Sealed bid auction and could even let Nvidia bid as well.

Every 1% expected value would put it at $10 million dollars.

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phonon·17h ago
Seems like you should sell your rights to the suit to a third party for a flat fee and percentage of recovery.
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chillfox·16h ago
Who in their right mind would buy a case that’s past the statute of limitations?
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lazyasciiart·15h ago
Half of HN, it sounds like.
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askjdfksdbfhk·14h ago
Yes, I have to say, I'm a bit surprised (and disappointed) by how many people in this thread are struggling with their reading comprehension of the story.

It's a fun story, but that's all. There's absolutely no legal case here.

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xyzsparetimexyz·12h ago
Reading comprehension != being a lawyer
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askjdfksdbfhk·9h ago
Sure, but it seems like people are struggling to follow the basic facts:

1) The author received communication 30 years ago that he had 15,625 stock options available to exercise;

2) However, according to some paperwork he had, he believes now that he actually had 25,000 stock options vested

The problem is, if we accept this as true (and it sounds like the paperwork had conflicting info about the vesting, and that the part that suggested the 25,000 vested might have been an error, so this part is not at all clear), all it means is that the author owned some additional stock options 30 years ago which he failed to exercise. These options have long since expired and so would be worthless today.

The author is claiming that the communication he received was misrepresentation, but if so the statue of limitations has long since expired.

I think a lot of the commenters are conflating stock options with actual shares themselves (which surprises me given the nature of this place, but regardless). If we were talking about 15,625 vs 25,000 shares then it's a different story since shares don't expire and don't need to be exercised. He would still have a claim to the extra shares--the claim would be that he had owned them this whole time. But options are a different story because of expiration.

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rfgplk·11h ago
Not only would I buy it, I'd win it too. Statute of limitations is irrelevant here. Property rights are eternal.
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whall6·17h ago
Just commented the same thing and agree 100%.
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tocs3·16h ago
What sort of law suit rights can be sold? This is a new concept for me. If I was hit by a Mack truck could I sell my rights to sue. It would seem to be a different type of case or are they both sort of the some. Injured by a truck vs. injured by you not holding up your end of the bargin?
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phonon·16h ago
Pretty much any lawsuit right can be sold, except for personal injury lawsuits, due to specific state restrictions for public policy reasons.
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piker·12h ago
I found the facts a bit hard to follow, but is his claim that they actually agreed to the accelerated vesting schedule, or that it was a drafting error? In the latter case, it's probably not just the statute of limitations that is blocking his claim in law or equity here.
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claiir·11h ago
Yea, laches in equity, right?
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piker·11h ago
Yeah but I was thinking more along the lines of mutual mistake or scriviner's error or something. If both the parties agreed to a vesting schedule and then signed a document with a different schedule, that won't necessarily bind them to the written (erroneous) version.
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schnitzelstoat·5h ago
> This invitation followed a meeting I had with Jensen, Curtis Priem, and Chris Malachowsky on my houseboat

> Then, in April 1996 - by which time I’d expatriated to the Kingdom of Tonga and was working on various internet startup schemes

He must have so many interesting stories!

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eggy·5h ago
I am not too financially literate, but if the 4 quarters with a 1-year cliff was the period then, what would their value had been? Around $5.75M (6,250 shares per quarter x 4 = 25000 * $230/share)?
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chihuahua·2h ago
The article mentions that there were some stock splits along the way so today it would be 480 times as many shares.
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simonebrunozzi·11h ago
> Then, in April 1996 - by which time I’d expatriated to the Kingdom of Tonga...

This is why I still love California so much. The chance of things like this is just much higher than in any other place on Earth.

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Reason077·11h ago
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electriclove·16h ago
So the shares he did receive are worth well over $1B too right?
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whall6·16h ago
Probably sold them a long time ago.
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throw03172019·16h ago
Don’t options expire (ex. Leaving the company)? How would this work thirty years later?
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Vaslo·16h ago
If you’ve exercised them, you’ve essentially bought the stock at that price and own it. Most people just sell them right away because they’re more interested in the payment on the difference between option price and current price. But you technically could exercise/buy it and just hold.
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what·16h ago
He’s not complaining about the options he exercised, rather the ones he didn’t and would now be worth a billion.
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bpodgursky·16h ago
Uh the vast majority of people exercise and hold to start the clock on LTCG. Very rare and frankly mostly financially unsophisticated people who immediately sell just to cash out.
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warmwaffles·16h ago
If you exercise them, they are yours.
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HDThoreaun·16h ago
He didnt though. He only exercised 3/4 of them and it sounds like he sold those shares
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MotoriX·7h ago
That has to be one of the most painful “I should have checked the paperwork” stories ever. Imagine discovering 30 years later that your forgotten NVIDIA shares could have been worth a billion dollars.
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TomGarden·10h ago
This was a fun read. Reminiscent of all the "I have bitcoin on a hard drive I misplaced" stories
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swiftcoder·10h ago
These are always fun little what ifs. In 2012 I sold $50k in Amazon stock to pay off my student loans - a hilariously bad financial decision in retrospect, since the loans had capped interest rates, and that $50k of 2012 amazon stock would be worth over a million today...
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random_moonwalk·9h ago
"If only I'd put all my money on red before they span the roulette wheel!"
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swiftcoder·9h ago
Absolutely, but also, "youth is wasted on the young"
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andy_ppp·16h ago
So is there not a case for suing not for the shares but being told the wrong information at the time? It seems wrong to be mislead by a company who owes you shares in this way.
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binlog·14h ago
Doesn’t matter what you are suing for. The window to do it closed a long time ago.
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gchamonlive·9h ago
> NVIDIA did not dispute the authenticity of the option agreement, only that my claims were long since time-barred.

Was this part of the agreement since the beginning or did they add this afterwards, and if so did they clearly communicate to you?

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qxmat·2h ago
I briefly worked at Games Workshop when the employee share save price was ~340p. Sadly they didn't pay enough for me to afford to buy shares on top of my rent, so I had to leave. Crazy to think they're all multi-millionaires now.
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amelius·10h ago
Well, better sell them because nvidia will be a victim of their own success. Who is going to write CUDA kernels if you can just ask AI to do it for you? At that point you might as well target different architectures.
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omegadynamics·2h ago
if i were jensen i'd give the dude a Billion for the PR
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Traster·9h ago
I put this firmly in my category of "Bitcoin Millionaires". Well, yes, technically, if you had noticed at the time, and you had sued them and they had lost (which they might not, it seems he knew the paperwork was a mistake) then you would have had 9,375 more shares, and then if you'd kept them you'd have a billion dollars more worth of Nvidia stock.

Here's a question though - you were given 15,625, so are you a billionare? Do you have those shares? Probably not. So what's makes you think that if you'd got those extra 9k shares you would've kept them?

It's the same as the Bitcoin millionaires, yes, you had 50 bitcoin in 2012 you'd be rich now. But the vast majority of those people sold their bitcoin long before it went up (or bought a pizza with it) and a big chunk of those who didn't got Mt Goxed or BitFinxed or FTX'ed, or got hacked, or lost their hard disk with their private keys etc. etc. etc.

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